Perbincangan pengguna:Limbo.J

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Apli kasi 12:56, 24 Julai 2017 (UTC)

Perihal: "Sukan Olimpik Belia/Remaja"

Salam, saudara. Saya terbaca apa yang saudara tuliskan.

Ada masalah dengan apa yang saudara tunjukkan dalam bukti dilampirkan saudara: saudara memetik sumber dari badan-badan sukan dan bahasa di Malaysia. Masalahnya, Wikipedia bahasa Melayu bukan sahaja untuk manfaat pembaca dalam negara Malaysia sahaja, tetapi juga untuk Singapura, Brunei malah komuniti-komuniti Melayu di Indonesia dan Thailand sekalipun. Sukan Olimpik Belia pertama kali diadakan di Singapura yang termasuk dalam alam bahasa Melayu, maka Singapuralah yang lebih berhak memberi nama rasmi dalam bahasa Melayu. Banyak juga entri di sini yang memetik terus dari sumber bahasa Melayu di Singapura baik dari siaran rasmi (lihat antara contoh awal) seperti Berita Mediacorp (penyiar radio dan televisyen rasmi pemerintah - bukan "kerajaan" - Singapura) dan Berita Harian Singapura.

Keadaan saudara memetik dari sumber Malaysia ini menunjukkan bahawa saudara sudah ada bias atau kecenderungan mengikut perspektif Malaysia sahaja; keneutralan negara adalah aspek yang sangat diutamakan di Wikipedia secara umum, setahu saya. Jika saudara ada tunjukkan penulisan yang menyatakan persetujuan pihak-pihak bahasa Singapura, Malaysia, Brunei dan Indonesia seragam guna "Sukan Olimpik Remaja" untuk temasya ini, lain pula ceritanya. Malangnya, kita terpaksa pakai apa yang lagi tersedia ada. Hujahan sebab "banyak artikel berita dan akhbar juga menggunakan istilah tersebut" juga berkaitan masalah ini, sebab media massa bahasa Melayu baku Malaysia (bahasa Malaysia) mengikut perspektif Malaysia sendiri yang adakala sering tidak seiringan dalam bahasa yang selesa digunakan di satu negara lain. Antara contoh paling senang: Singapura dan Indonesia menggunakan perkataan "pemerintah" untuk government mereka yang jelas republik, tetapi terbitan Malaysia seperti Berita Harian, Kosmo semua masih tetap menggunakan kata "kerajaan" (mengikut cara lazim di Malaysia yang merupakan sebuah kerajaan berperlembagaan) walaupun sebenarnya salah.

Jadi, jawapan saya untuk persoalan diutarakan saudara: ya, kita mesti seragamkan semua rencana mengenai topik ini supaya menggunakan nama "Sukan Olimpik Belia". Jangan terlalu terikat dengan idea bahawa "bahasa Melayu = Malaysia" sahaja; itu silap saudara yang sebenar, bukan kerana saudara tidak membincangkan hal ini dengan saya terlebih dahulu. Saya cadangkan saudara banyakkan pandang luar Malaysia dalam Nusantara semasa menyunting mengenai topik dan peristiwa serantau lain kali. Semoga petua ini dapat membantu....

Yang ikhlas,
Anumengelamun (bincang) 13:47, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Saya setuju dengan pendapat saudara. Namun saya masih ada beberapa perkara yang kurang jelas:

• Adakah kemungkinan bahawa "Sukan Olimpik Belia" merupakan istilah yang diguna pakai di Singapura dan Brunei manakala "Sukan Olimpik Remaja" merupakan istilah yang digunakan di Malaysia? Sebab nama "Sukan Olimpik Belia" itu hanya merupakan nama rasmi temasya tersebut dalam Singapura, IOC tidak memberikan nama Melayu yang rasmi dan seperti yang saudara kata, tiada persetujuan antara negara-negara alam Melayu mengenai istilah ini.
• Andaikan suatu hari nanti Malaysia akan menganjurkan Sukan Olimpik Belia, dan kerajaan Malaysia kekal dengan penggunaan istilah "Sukan Olimpik Remaja", bagaimana pula kita nak menamakan rencana tersebut? Sebab adalah lebih baik sekiranya semua rencana YOG menggunakan nama yang sama untuk mengelakkan pengeliruan dalam kalangan pembaca.
• Walaupun kita semua setuju bahawa "Belia" merupakan istilah yang betul, tetapi sekiranya penggunaan "Remaja" sudah meluas di Malaysia, haruskah kita mengikut prinsip "Wikipedia:Tajuk rencana#Gunakan nama yang paling biasa untuk orang dan benda" sedangkan rakyat Malaysia merupakan golongan penutur BM yang agak besar? (Keadaan ini mempunyai persamaan dengan isu Football/Soccer yang wujud di Wikipedia BI)
• Walaupun saya sendiri juga berasa jawapan DBP kurang bersifat neutral, tetapi sekiranya terdapat pertikaian/persoalan dalam aspek bahasa, bukankah harus kita rujuk kepada DBP? Atau terdapat pihak lain yang harus kita rujuk? Limbo.J 01:41, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Saya fikir "Belia" mungkin akan dikekalkan di WBM jika kebarangkalian penganjuran di Malaysia berlaku, atas sebab kesinambungan. Media massa Malaysia yang patut bertanggungjawab arif keadaan bahasa negara-negara tetangga lalu tidak membawa haluan diri, seperti mana yang dicerminkan dalam pemilihan kosakata tidak sesuai dalam penulisan geopolitik umum disebut.

Sudah tentu IOC yang utama guna bahasa Inggeris dan Perancis tidak akan utamakan penamaan khusus seperti ini, tetapi pada sisi lainnya juga keempat-empat jawatankuasa Olimpik negara utama berbahasa baku Melayu (termasuk baku Malaysia dan baku Indonesia) sendiri seperti tiada kesepakatan yang diketahui untuk penamaan temasya ini: penyegerakan ini terangkum dalam masalah dihadapi alam bahasa Melayu keseluruhannya yang mana ia tiada pertukaran bahasa giat yang menyumbangkan kepada asas laras bahasa sejagat memudahkan penciptaan suatu ensiklopedia seperti Wikipedia - alam bahasa Inggeris ada kelebihan itu. Maka, WBM saya rasa ada peranan di sini mengisi kekosongan itu melalui usaha pengumpulan segala maklumat bahasa Melayu sedia ada yang mungkin agak rudimentary pada mulanya, tetapi diharap dapat menyedarkan pihak-pihak bahasa bertanggungjawab serantau terhadap keseragaman bahasa-bahasa baku yang ada sejak sekian lama, termasuklah penamaan temasya. Kalau ada perubahan nanti dan memang keempat-empat negara ini setuju nama sama dipakai, boleh kita bawakan kepada perbincangan akan datang. In the mean time, kita kekalkan begini dahulu.

Selalunya jika saya menghadapi kepincangan istilah umum (kata nama khas macam entri Olimpik itu lain cerita), saya selalu membandingkan antara keempat-empat sumber Malaysia, Singapura, Indonesia dan Brunei untuk melihat mana istilah mana yang digunakan berkongsi ciri yang sama dari segi morfologi dan maksud, selepas itu saya judulkan kepada mana yang ada hubung kait (correlation) dalam antara keempat-empat baku bahasa.

Anumengelamun (bincang) 09:56, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Translation request

Hello.

Can you translate and upload the article en:Sport in Azerbaijan/id:Olahraga di Azerbaijan in Malay Wikipedia?

Yours sincerely, Multituberculata (bincang) 11:28, 2 Januari 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the new article and all the best! Multituberculata (bincang) 08:05, 3 Januari 2022 (UTC)

Flags of the Olympic pages

Hello! Can you correct the errors concerning the flags on the Olympic pages?. Because I see that many of the flags are todays. The pages in question are: http://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukan_Olimpik_Musim_Panas_1984, http://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukan_Olimpik_Musim_Panas_1988, http://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukan_Olimpik_Musim_Panas_1992, http://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukan_Olimpik_Musim_Panas_1996, http://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukan_Olimpik_Musim_Panas_2000, and http://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukan_Olimpik_Musim_Panas_2004. And also the template page http://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templat:FlagIOC Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.88.4.178 14:58, 10 Mei 2022 (UTC)

Hi, sorry for the late reply. To be honest I'm not really sure why it displayed the wrong flag. I suspect the problem might be a bug in Modul:Country alias as the template and the usage of the template in those pages you've listed are the same as the English version, and obviously there's nothing wrong with the English version. Unfortunately, I know nothing about modules in Wikipedia so I'm sorry that I'm unable to help you with that. Maybe you can find users that had contributed to the module for help?

I could manually change the flags on those articles (but not the template page) as a temporary fix if you want. (ex: use Hong Kong instead of  Hong Kong) Limbo.J 03:21, 12 Mei 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the flag fix

Hello! You can add a temporary flag fix until the problem is sorted out. Can you discuss with Hayate891 and Hongqilim about the Modul:Country alias and see what you get there. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.88.4.178 13:17, 12 Mei 2022 (UTC)

Manual flag fix

Hello! You can add a manual flag fix to the Olympic pages until the flag problem is sorted if that is a necessity. This problem has been going for a long time i think. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.88.4.178 13:19, 12 Mei 2022 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Olympic Games

Hello! Can you add new parameters to the infobox Olympics template. Example succession links like what they have on the English template for the next summer and Winter Games for example if the previous Summer Games was in 1960 then the next one should be in 1964. If the previous Winter Games was in 1964 then the next one should be in 1968. Check the English template and see what you find there?. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.88.4.178 13:22, 12 Mei 2022 (UTC)

Participating National Olympic Committees in the Olympic Games

Hello! Can you add a section for Participating countries at different Olympic Games on the pages of that specific Games. For example the 1960 Summer Olympics and until 1980 and from 1920 until 1956. And for the Winter Games from 1928 until 1998. And from 2002 until 2010. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.88.4.178 13:28, 12 Mei 2022 (UTC)

Hi, this is going to take some time though as that is A LOT of articles. And as I plan to also include some other basic details about the Games so it's just going to be more time consuming. I'm currently working on other articles as well so maybe I'll come back on this after I finish it. So I hope you can be patient with it :D Limbo.J 04:40, 13 Mei 2022 (UTC)

Flag fix

Hello! Regarding the flag fix you can use a manual fix for a temporary period on the Olympic pages until the bugs are fixed if there is one. Discuss with the users who have added the modules and see what you get there. I'm fine with a temporary flag fix as long as it is the right ones and you can change the manually. I want a temporary flag for all the flags in question for example Hong Kong, Paraguay, Bahrain, Bulgaria, Ecuador, Comoros, Romania, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Rwanda, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bahrain, Venezuela, Cyprus, Georgia, Libya, Lesotho, Saint Lucia, Turkmenistan, Yugoslavia, Serbia, Iraq, South Korea, Myanmar, Ethiopia, Lithuania and so on. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.88.4.178 10:09, 22 Mei 2022 (UTC)

Flags

Hello! Can you check regarding the flags i think i know now what have caused it can you see if the FlagIOC template is working properly that must do so if the historical flags should do. Yours sincerely, Sondre --193.161.216.9 16:16, 24 Mei 2022 (UTC)

Hi, the problem seems to be resolved for some countries (i.e. Hong Kong) but some, like Cayman Islands', are still incorrect. And for other flag templates like FlagSEAGF the problem still persists. May I know what fix you've applied? Limbo.J 07:01, 25 Mei 2022 (UTC)

Flags

Hello! Regarding the flags again. I think the problem may lay on how the template is set up. I used the flagicon fixes on some pages. But when you use old flag templates that are not in use commonly then it is problem up for grabs. The fix i used works properly. I mean for the Canadian flags for example the current flag stands there in the template and not the historical one for the 1924 Winter Olympics and the flags of Vietnam and Malaysia should be the correct ones in corresponding to the years they show. Yours sincerely, Sondre --193.161.216.9 15:13, 25 Mei 2022 (UTC)

Translating the templates

Hello! Can you translate the templates to your language so it can be more compliant. F.ex Templat:Bendera negara alias IOC and Templat:Negara alias IOC. Is it possible to synchronize the country IOC templates better. Can you synchronize the templates with each other can you help me with that?. Yours sincerely, Sondre --193.161.216.9 09:42, 26 Mei 2022 (UTC) --193.161.216.9 09:42, 26 Mei 2022 (UTC)

Templat:FlagIOC

Hello! Can you check regarding the flagIOC template and try to synchronize the parameters correctly so it matches with the translations. The translations needs to be 100% right. Check the country flag templates too and see if they are right. I think the root of the problem lies in there. Yours sincerely, Sondre --193.161.216.9 14:27, 26 Mei 2022 (UTC)

IOC country codes

Hello! Is it possible to fill out more information regarding the IOC country codes. I think the page needs some information and better design. Yours sincerely, Sondre 193.161.216.9 10:01, 23 Jun 2022 (UTC)

FlagIOC template

Hello! Can you do something regarding the FlagIOC template and the historical flags which are lined up there. I think the main problem is way the words are arranged you use a different wording order and try to sort that out in a better way. I will give all the time that you need to sort this out. The template needs to be better synchronized and maybe the usage sections needs translation to be more compliant and maybe the template needs a revamp too then. Yours sincerely, Sondre 193.161.216.9 10:07, 23 Jun 2022 (UTC)

Olympic Cauldron and Stadium

Hello! Can you create a article for Olympic Cauldron and Stadium which tells who lighted the Olympic Cauldron and which stadium which the opening ceremony was held on. Yours sincerely, Sondre 193.161.216.9 19:06, 26 Jun 2022 (UTC)

Infobox Country Olympics template

Hello! Can you do something regarding the Infobox Country Olympics template?. I think it is a bit old and it needs to be deleted. I think it is enough to have the Infobox country at games that feels good enough too use. Yours sincerely, Sondre 193.161.216.9 14:48, 23 Julai 2022 (UTC)

Flag bearers for countries at the Olympic Games

Hello! Can you add articles about different countries Olympic flag bearers throughout the nation's Olympic history. And can you also add articles about flag bearers at Opening Ceremonies too.

Yours sincerely, Sondre 88.88.4.178 12:31, 29 Julai 2022 (UTC)

Stadiums for the Olympic Games

Hello! Can you add articles for all the Opening stadiums in the Olympic Games. From 1896 until today. Yours sincerely, Sondre 193.161.216.9 12:39, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Articles about nations at the Olympics

Hello! Can you add articles about nations who have participated at the Olympics both historic and current. For example United States at the 1912 Summer Olympics etc. Yours sincerely, Sondre 193.161.216.9 12:44, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Articles about stadiums at the Olympic Games

Hello! Can you add articles for the rest of the stadiums which has been used as opening stadium for the Olympic Games. E.g. Melbourne Cricket Ground, Francis Field, White City Stadium, Stockholm Olympic Stadium, Olympisch Stadion in Amsterdam, James B. Sheffield Olympic Skating Rink, Wembley Stadium (1923), Bislett, Estadio Olimpico Universitario, Munich Olympic Stadium, Olympic Stadium Montreal, Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum, Lysgårdsbakkene, Koševo Olympic Stadium, Bergisel, Stade Lesdiguères, McMahon Stadium, Rice-Eccles, Stadio Olimpico Grande Torino, BC Place and Seoul Olympic Stadium. Yours sincerely, Sondre 88.88.4.178 14:56, 24 Oktober 2022 (UTC)

NOCs at the Olympic Games

Hello! Can you add sections about NOCs at the Olympic Games on every Olympic page from 1896 until now. And can you also move articles for Olympic Games. E.g. the 1920 Summer Olympics to Sukan Olimpik Musim Panas 1920 instead of Sukan Olimpik Antwerp 1920, Sukan Olimpik Musim Panas 1928 instead of Sukan Olimpik Amsterdam 1928 and Sukan Olimpik Musim Panas 1932 instead of Sukan Olimpik Los Angeles 1932. 88.88.4.178 14:24, 1 November 2022 (UTC)